Basic Exalted Creation

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:33 pm

Got invited to join a 2E Exalted game (all Solars), and the entire thing is painfully new to me. From what little I've gleaned so far, there're oh so many traps. In order to still be my own unique snowflake without being crap, I'm curious to know what the basic survival package is supposed to be in terms of charms and build, so I know what I have left to spend to actually make my concept. An idea of the concepts to avoid would be nice to.

Many thanks for any help.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:45 pm

First, min-max at chargen. Anything you want high (like Dexterity) get high now, because raising things from low to moderate is cheap, but raising things from moderate to high is expensive.

Second, you want some version of Jon Chung's Paranoia Combo:

This post's purpose is to provide a convenient resource to link to in order to efficiently explain how to put together effective combos for Solar Exalted, sticking to the corebook as much as possible, though supplements expand accessible functionality considerably. We'll start with the heart of Exalted 2 combat, the paranoia combo. This is a Combo that you invoke every single action in combat, using a 2-die stunt to restore the expended Willpower.

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Base - Paranoia Combo: Excellency + Shadow over Water [Seven Shadow Evasion] + Reflex Sidestep Technique + Leaping Dodge Method

This Combo costs a total of 10 XP to purchase, is friendly with Infinite Mastery, allows the character to perfectly defend against any attack, allows the nullification of unexpected attacks and allows the character to break most flurries. This is the core of the wise Solar player's defensive strategy.

Kiting Expansion: + Soaring Crane Leap

+4 XP. Adding Soaring Crane Leap to the Combo allows for massive, 600+ yard leaps when Leaping Dodge Method is employed. This allows ranged combat characters to easily create distance between themselves and any close combat characters. The benefit of being an invalid target for your enemies' attacks is obvious.

Efficiency Expansion: + Resistance Excellency + Iron Skin Concentration [Adamant Skin Technique]

+4 XP, throwing Iron Skin Concentration (and the linked upgrade, Adamant Skin Technique) into the Combo allows, in conjunction with a high base DV and high Resistance pools, the filtering of attacks lacking Bad Touch properties through DV to be countered by ISC instead of SSE. This allows greater defensive efficiency.

Efficiency Expansion - No Movement Flurry Breaker Addition: + Day and Night Kata

+2 XP over the Efficiency Expansion, and requiring it to work, Day and Night Kata breaks any flurry for 4 motes, so long as the first blow hits. With either ISC or AST, a successful hit will do nothing, enabling the risk-free use of this Charm. This is important as sometimes, moving away from an opponent will not break his flurry. Do not use this option against Bad Touch.

Efficiency Expansion - Twilight Essence Reactor Addition: + Essence-Gathering Temper + Twilight Caste Anima Power

+1 XP over the basic Efficiency Expansion, and requiring the character to be of the Twilight Caste, this alteration enables the infamous Twilight Essence Reactor combination, which potentially returns up to 20 motes on top of the activation cost of 6 motes. Most characters can easily find something to do with a free gain of 14 motes per action.

Mental Defense Expansion A: + Sagacious Reading of Intent

+1 XP cost. Provides reflexive 3m defense against any mental influence, but it is possible for this defense to fail against mental influence that is not hostile to the character or the character's Motivation, however rare that might be. The easiest and cheapest way to include mental defense in the Paranoia Combo. Sagacious Reading of Intent has no prerequisites and a requirement of 1.

Mental Defense Expansion B: + Elusive Dream Defense

+4 XP cost. Provides a story-long defense against mental influence, defined by a specially created Intimacy. A stronger form of mental defense than Sagacious Reading of Intent, but more expensive, requiring two prerequisite Charms.

Shaping Defense Expansion: + Integrity-Protecting Prana

+1 XP cost. Provides reflexive day-long immunity to Shaping effects. If Shaping effects are expected to appear, this Charm should be acquired quickly, and probably activated at the beginning of the day. However, with the low requirement, it costs practically nothing to add to the Combo.

Party Defense Expansion: + Spoken in Kindness

+3 XP cost. Allows the character to redirect any attack made against anyone within his normal melee range to himself for 1 mote. This expansion allows the Solar to effectively defend his Circlemates, who may not have such potent defenses.

Counterattack Expansion A: + Solar Counterattack

+4 XP cost. Grants the use of reflexive counterattacks with any attack Ability at the cost of 3m per counterattack, once per enemy attack, so long as PDV is used. While it is normally not a good idea to spend 3 motes to cause the enemy to spend 3 motes or less, as is the case when fighting other Celestial Exalted, this Charm is a fine choice against less defensively efficient foes.

Counterattack Expansion B: + Ready in Eight Directions Stance + Bulwark Stance

+10 XP cost. Allows the Solar to reflexively counterattack against every incoming attack, and grants full DV against all attacks until the Solar's next action. Combined with an infinite Aim loop to cause the Solar's action to not end, coupled with the use of the Efficiency and Party Defense expansions above, the Solar can make himself a highly unattractive target to attack, and force others to attack him.

Sneak Attack Expansion: + Falling Icicle Strike + Night Caste Anima Power

+4 XP cost. Realistically requires the Night Caste anima power to use properly. Allows any Unexpected Attack to double damage for 1 mote, reflexively.

Third, in general the game is all about asymmetric values. Melee is worth a lot, Ride is worth almost nothing. The spell that summons a First Circle Demon is worth a lot, the spell that shoots a cone of sharp obsidian is worth almost nothing. A five-dot artifact sword is worth a lot, a five-dot artifact armor is totally not. There are indeed many traps, and it would be difficult to list them all.

Do you have a concept? If your wants are more specific, I can probably offer better advice.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:13 pm

I'm not horrendously used to the kind of stunt system it seems to encourage, and I don't know this DM, so it would be nice to avoid heavy willpower spending builds; assuming such a thing could be done.

I'm thinking either some kind of caster/crafter concept, or something with the Night caste

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:40 pm

virgileso wrote:I'm not horrendously used to the kind of stunt system it seems to encourage, and I don't know this DM, so it would be nice to avoid heavy willpower spending builds; assuming such a thing could be done.

The stunt system as written makes 2-point stunts really easy; describe your action, include the environment, done. Some GMs are tools and think you shouldn't be able to get a 2-point stunt every 'turn;' these people are not playing by the rules and should be asked what other house rules they might have instituted without telling you.

In any event, the basic Paranoia Combo is perfectly functional for never being punked like a bitch, and you should use it every turn because most fights don't last that long anyway.

I'm thinking either some kind of caster/crafter concept, or something with the Night caste

Okay, you cannot profitably cast spells in combat. Most of the time, you can't cast spells profitably for in-combat effects, because the summons are not particularly impressive combatants. That said, Summon First Circle Demon is an incredibly versatile effect that is well worth it, and there are some spells which give you really good long-distance travel options. There are a few other gems here and there.

Crafting has had a lot of text devoted to it, with multiple revisions, and I never cared; so I can't really help you there except to say that Craftsman Needs No Tools is probably necessary.

Nachtigallerator · Post by **Nachtigallerator** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:13 pm

virgileso wrote: I'm thinking either some kind of caster/crafter concept, or something with the Night caste

Depending on how much Essence you're allowed to start with, Sorcery (what you will do as a caster) is either situationally useful or universally abuseable. Assuming that you're restricted to the Terrestrial Circle, Demon of the First Circle, Cirrus Skiff, and, if social combat is to be expected, Fugue of Truth sound like they could be of use in more than a few environments. I can present a few of my theoretical strategies on the higher-level spells if you're interested.

Generally, a Night caste occupation is probably more reasonable stuff than sorcery, unless you want to have fun with the Twilight Anima. Being a Night, you get cost reduction on a lot of stuff that you might want, as opposed to cost reduction on 5 weapon types of which you'll probably use just 2, which is what Dawn castes get.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:05 pm

It's also trivial to grab Occult as a Favored Skill and get all the sorcery you want on any caste. Same goes for Martial Arts or Melee.

I'd pretty much only consider playing a Zenith, Night, or Eclipse because they get more useful skills unless

--you really wanna lead armies
--you wanna abuse the Twilight damage shield
--you wanna get huge into crafting (which ultimately requires Lore, Craft, and Occult)

RiotGearEpsilon · Post by **RiotGearEpsilon** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:19 pm

All of the advice you've received so far is pretty good. A basic paranoia combo will basically render you immune to bullshit death, but don't forget to use it aggressively.

A good caster/crafter isn't too hard to do. Sorcery, Demon of the First Circle. That's really all you need to be a 'sorcerer' - someone who aggressively summons and binds demons to accomplish tasks will accomplish them in a sorcery-ish way. For most any thing you want built, you can probably call up a demon that can do an okay job building it for you, so long as you're willing to put up with them being weird and eccentric.

Remember that demons in Exalted aren't necessarily evil, just psychologically unhinged by human standards. A lot of them are downright benevolent, even from a human perspective, but those tend to be super gross, like the stomach bottle bug.

I recommend you keep a copy of the Taxonomy of Madness ( http://exalted.xi.co.nz/wiki/ATaxonomyOfMadness ) on hand to have a good list of demon concepts to call up from the pit.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:03 pm

I'm starting with whatever the book gives starting characters, and only the core book for choices from what I'm aware of. If it's like previous WW games, I don't believe in-game experience takes you very far very fast (haven't gotten to that part of the book yet, so I don't know).

Is crafting any good to get huge into? Is there a valid way to do illusions? How about a master of disguise/shapeshifting? Though for the illusionist or stealther I still need an attack for when the jig is up.

The only other concept I can think of as interesting is a speedster, which I suspect takes a lot of effort for no real benefit.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:21 pm

Q: Is crafting any good to get huge into?
A: Maybe? It can require a lot of downtime is the big deal, and whether or not you have any is campaign-specific. It can eventually get you a lot of artifact weapons, powered armor, even magitech vehicles, but you may or may not even care.

Q: Is there a valid way to do illusions?
A: I don't think Solars really do that, though I could be wrong.

Q: How about a master of disguise/shapeshifting?
A: Actual shapeshifting is a Lunar schtick. The Solar disguise charms are pretty good and not hard to get. I think it's Larceny Excellency -> Flawlessly Impenetrable Disguise -> Perfect Mirror. Three charms get you all the disguise you'll ever need.

Though for the illusionist or stealther I still need an attack for when the jig is up.

In my experience, you get an artifact weapon or a conjured weapon (like Glorious Solar Saber), a melee excellency such as is already in the paranoia combo, and the charm that reduces the cost of the excellency. Then you swing your weapon with a large die pool - and that's all the offense anyone really needs. The offensive Charms are (mostly) traps.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:35 pm

The basic thing to remember is that Exalted runs on perfect defenses. Literally your enemies have a limited number of counters that will stop any attack. So if your attack is big enough to injure your opponent to the point where they don't want you to do that, it's big enough to flush perfect defenses. And spending anything more than that on your part (be it XP, Willpower, power points, or time) to make your attacks any larger will, for the most part, simply make your opponent more glad they spent a perfect defense.

You want to attack more often, not harder. Which perversely usually involves cranking up your own defenses so that you get more attacks before the battle ends.

-Username17

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:18 pm

The one that lets you attack like 4 times in one go looked pretty good too... or is it too essence-hungry to be worth it?

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:17 pm

Orion wrote:The one that lets you attack like 4 times in one go looked pretty good too... or is it too essence-hungry to be worth it?

No.

Only Lunars really get good multiple attacks faster options that are worth it.

And that's because they turn into a Spider with 8 legs, a Gore, a Bite, then buff all 10 attacks at once to high enough that you better spend a perfect.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:40 pm

You should snag Principle of Motion if your DM will let you. There's two ways to grab it, one dodgy and one more expensive but less argumentable. The first involves artifact abuse, the second involves being a certain Solar caste.

Secondly, depending on the context of your campaign, you want to grab a set of charms that will protect you against mental influence and bodily transformations. If I remember these are pretty cheap and easier to set up than perfect defenses. I do know that if you want to do high-level Solar combat you need this shit to stay in the game. But if you're going to do things like wail on Dragonblooded or gods, you can probably get by without it.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:03 pm

Tell me if this is stupid...

Night Caste Solar

Charms
Dodge: Shadow over Water [Seven Shadow Evasion] + Reflex Sidestep Technique
Occult: Terrestial Circle Sorcery + Summon First Circle Demon (DM charges a charm to start off knowing any spells, but that's the only one I'm interested in)
Larceny: Larceny Excellency + Flawlessly Impenetrable Disguise + Flawless Pickpocketing Technique
Stealth: Easily Overlooked Presence + Mental Invisibility Technique

Backgrounds: Cult 2, Manse 2 (gemstone of surface thoughts), Resources 3, Artifact 1 (hearthstone amulet)

Special: Purchase 3 thaumaturge procedures with 1bp for Create Lesser Wonder (Lamellar armor and Mace); as well as one other that ritual that I haven't decided on

Bonus Points: To meet the minimums for the above, I've spent 12 of my starting 15

Gnosticism Is A Hoot · Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:12 pm

Orion wrote:The one that lets you attack like 4 times in one go looked pretty good too... or is it too essence-hungry to be worth it?

Frankly, there's not much point using attack charms at all - with a high melee skill and a Grand Goremaul, you can flurry almost any enemy to death in a single tick without spending a single mote.

Exalted combat is seriously very, very boring. You trade attacks and perfect defenses until one combatant runs out of motes, at which point you one-shot them with a flurry.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:48 pm

Okay, but with the flurry charm you spend only 8 motes to make him Perfect 4 times...

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:30 am

Near final result of character. Please inform me of any screwups

Attributes
Physical: Strength 2, Dexterity 4, Stamina 1
Social: Charisma 3, Manipulation 4, Appearance 4
Mental: Perception 1, Intelligence 4, Wits 4

Abilities
Caste: Athletics 3, Awareness 1, Dodge 4, Larceny 4, Stealth 4
Favored: Occult 3, Resistance 1, Presence 3, Melee 3 (2xhammer), Socialize 3
Other: Linguistics 1, Lore 2

Backgrounds: Manse 2 (Telepathy), Resources 2, Artifact 1 (orichalcum chain shirt, 2m), Artifact 2 (jade hearthstone bracers, 8m), Artifact 2 (Jade Goremaul, 10m)

Charms
Dodge: Shadow over Water + Seven Shadow Evasion + Reflex Sidestep Technique
Occult: Terrestial Circle Sorcery + Summon First Circle Demon
Larceny: Larceny Excellency + Flawlessly Impenetrable Disguise + Flawless Pickpocketing Technique
Stealth: Easily Overlooked Presence + Mental Invisibility Technique

Virtues
Compassion 1, Conviction 4, Temperance 1, Valor 3

Willpower 7

Essence 3

Essence Pool
Primary Motes 16
Periphereal Motes 37 [20 committed]

My defenses are: Dodge 6 (+3 dice); Soak 8L/5B; Hardness 3L/3B

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:12 am

Orion wrote:Okay, but with the flurry charm you spend only 8 motes to make him Perfect 4 times...

If the enemy is competently built, they will use one Perfect and a flurry-negator like the Leaping Dodge, with a total cost of less than 8 motes.

There are a very small number of competitive combat builds in Exalted, and the combat those builds result in is very dull. When a group doesn't know what they're doing, you get all kinds of crazy suboptimal builds that produce wild and variable combat results, but as soon as any system mastery develops, life becomes a lot less fun.

virgileso wrote:Please inform me of any screwups

To reiterate, starting with Abilities at 4 is a really bad idea because of how the costs are flat at character generation and raked thereafter. Anything you want high, max out now. Anything you only want 1 or even 2 in can probably wait until during play. You should really only have 3s and 5s on your starting sheet.

For similar reasons, your physical stats make me cry. Observe:

Let's say you want to get your physical stats to 2/5/2 - which you do because Dex is the god of you.
• If you start with a nice round 2/3/2, getting to 2/5/2 will cost you (3x4)+(4x4) = 28 xp.
• If you start with the more focused 1/5/1, getting to 2/5/2 will cost you (1x4)+(1x4) = 8 xp.
• Therefore, despite starting with the same number of points, your arrangement of those points has screwed you out of 20 xp.

Finally, artifact lamellar is useless, ditch it. Spend more on your weapon, because unique and powerful weapons can be hard to come by, but basic artifact weapons are usually easy to loot from antagonists.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:34 am

I was assuming that I might get attacked by mortals with basic swords, and artifact lamellar gives me enough armor to not worry about getting hit.

While I can accept starting stamina low at 1, I can't wield any good weapons with a strength of 1. Meeting the minimum requirements is the same reason I bought those three abilities to 4, because my charms require 4+ in those abilities and I have a finite number of bonus points.

I made some revisions

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:07 am

If you're looking to min-max your Virtues, dump everything into Valor.

There's a low-grade artifact that lets you spend 3 motes instead of a willpower point to surpress a Valor check.

Anyone with brains in their head who isn't looking to use their background dots for something else (like having a Gold Faction Sidereal ally) gets that stupid Artifact 5 sword, especially if they're looking to fight mooks. In combination with the above, it's like pushing the 'I win' button against anything but min-maxxed opponents. And even then, taking away a 6 die from all of their checks is awesome.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:09 am

Eh, that would require switching the caste and switching out entirely too much stuff in order to fit in that sword. While I want to make sure I'm not doing utter crap and can fight, I don't want to craft the absolute best in murder.

From what I've seen out of the game, there's no set standard in enemy power level like there is in D&D.

Niles · Post by **Niles** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:45 am

Unless it's vital to your character concept to start the game as a Sorcerer, I'd advise waiting on Essence 3. Buying up Essence is much cheaper with experience than Bonus points.

Also Appearance is the social combat God stat if you're doing it in person.

Gnosticism Is A Hoot · Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:35 am

Orion wrote:Okay, but with the flurry charm you spend only 8 motes to make him Perfect 4 times...

With the Grand Goremaul and a normal flurry, you can make him perfect several times for no motes at all. Seriously. Heavenly Guardian Defence is the best perfect defence Solars have access to, and it costs 2 motes. The Sidereal, Abyssal and Infernal equivalents don't cost much more. Spending motes to attack other Celestials is almost never a good idea, because at best you will generally be spending as many or almost as many motes as your opponent.

Of course, fighting Dragonbloods and Spirits and other enemies who don't have perfect defenses is entirely different, and many Exalted campaigns will focus more on these enemies than on Celestials. Nonetheless, as soon as the really hardcore enemies show up, the combat system just becomes a simple game of mote attrition.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:47 am

Your melee specialization is too specific. 'Bludgeoning weapons,' 'artifact weapons,' or 'two-handed weapons,' will all probably be acceptable.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:45 pm

Also:

HELLO, NILES! HOW ARE YOU DOOOOOING? WELCOME TO THE DEN!